tussock wrote:People who do anything Asian themed are Ki powered.
Picking up and using a katana doesn't make a Fighter Ki powered. Picking up and using a Katana while dressing in samurai armor and speaking japanese and following Bushido doesn't make a fighter Ki powered. Nor is that racist in any sense of the word. If we suddenly say, the Fighter is a 'Samurai' and uses 'Ki' now it's racist rather than thematic? Why wasn't it racist before?
Apparently using an asian word, of a roughly asian concept, while portraying classic (and modern) asian themes as asians themselves portray them is... racist. I really don't know how that works.
If a Knight used Ki would that be racist?
Last edited by Previn on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Saying that one general culture has to use a single power source is racist, especially when you can't explain why a more general power source doesn't fit.
The "Ki" power source is just saying "the Asian power source." Ninjas should be a variation of whatever Rogues are and Samurai should be whatever Fighters are, but making them "Ki" just stereotypes them as exotic "others" who are all the same.
By the same token, making American classes like Gunslinger, Yankee Trader, Frontier Doctor, and Cowboy all "grit power source" would be racist too because the European classes would be the real people who can be sourced according to individual theme and the Americans would be sourced by an overarching and stereotypical cultural attribute.
BTW, the Tome Samurai iconic was a halfling as a way of defying the stereotype, and the class specifically states that all cultures have samurai and not just the "asiany" ones.
Last edited by K on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Previn wrote:I'm not sure how 'Ki' equals where you live.
Wow.
People who pray to gods (or abstract principles) are Divine powered.
People who lift weights, stretch a lot, and do reps are Martial powered.
People who read books or trade with Fiends are Arcane powered.
People who do anything Asian themed are Ki powered.
Please stop being retarded. That's my thing. No fair making me look good by comparison.
Again, Ki isn't just "lift weights, stretch a lot, and do reps." Ki is "Internal Energy," that is often unlocked through physical hardship, and spiritual inward contemplation. Honestly, it's what every "spiritually inclined physical combatant" type character should be powered by, including paladins, and possibly rangers, depending on what kind of ranger you're going for. But it's somewhat silly to say "Paladins, Monks, Flame Strike Samurai, and Ninjas are all Ki powered. Yes, this game is primarily western european in aesthetcis" and so it makes sense that the western equivalent, by way of a word that means "internal power," "Psionics," is used for monk power source instead. I suppose giving Ninja the Shadow power source makes sense as well.
I fail to see the inclusion of a Ki power source as racist, but I'll agree that saying "all classes with their roots in asian culture use the Ki power source" is racist.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
K wrote:Saying that one general culture has to use a single power source is racist, especially when you can't explain why a more general power source doesn't fit.
The "Ki" power source is just saying "the Asian power source." Ninjas should be a variation of whatever Rogues are and Samurai should be whatever Fighters are, but making them "Ki" just stereotypes them as exotic "others" who are all the same.
By the same token, making American classes like Gunslinger, Yankee Trader, Frontier Doctor, and Cowboy all "grit power source" would be racist too because the European classes would be the real people who can be sourced according to individual theme and the Americans would be sourced by an overarching and stereotypical cultural attribute.
BTW, the Tome Samurai iconic was a halfling as a way of defying the stereotype, and the class specifically states that all cultures have samurai and not just the "asiany" ones.
So if the Ki power source had been expanded to more than just Asian themed classes, or the Asian classes had some non-ki power sources it would have been fine, and it's just the specific implementation in 4e that pushes it into racist?
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote:
See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
tussock wrote:People who pray to gods (or abstract principles) are Divine powered.
People who lift weights, stretch a lot, and do reps are Martial powered.
People who read books or trade with Fiends are Arcane powered.
People who do anything Asian themed are Ki powered.
But if we look at this list, the problem is two fold. The first is a naming convention. The other names are general instances not a specific term for a general instance.
So on the one hand a batter term would be "Inner powered." (Or self powered.)
But the second point still stands. People who focus on acieving the poer of their inner selves are Inner (Self) powered. Not just because they all come from a specific region.
Back in the old editions, "self powered" was one of the most annoying power sources out there. We used to call those people "psionic."
Previn wrote:
So if the Ki power source had been expanded to more than just Asian themed classes, or the Asian classes had some non-ki power sources it would have been fine, and it's just the specific implementation in 4e that pushes it into racist?
I know I was a contributor to this, but have we not now spent 3 freaking pages saying "it's racists because they used it for exoticfication purposes and Ki/Chi doesn't have to be a racists power souce assuming you don't do exactly what they did."
Can we please move the conversation along now? Seriously, I don't mind the den bitching because its entertaining but I think we have done all the beating of this dead horse we can do.
